Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Howard River (disambiguation)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. If the fate of this page is not obvious after the closure of the pending requested move, then the page may return to AfD. But the outcome of the requested move, in this case, must be determined first. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 16:56, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Howard River (disambiguation)

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WP:TWODABS situation. Could not find any other Howard Rivers to disambiguate. (t · c) buidhe 17:44, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. (t · c) buidhe 17:44, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hinemoatū River is shorter and has a much lower population nearby than Howard River. Therefore it should be regarded as at least as important as the Australian river which shares its alternative name. Johnragla (talk) 19:09, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If there are two topics and one is primary, hatnotes should be used instead of a dab page. see WP:TWODABS. (t · c) buidhe 19:11, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Which is primary and why? Johnragla (talk) 19:28, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Currently Hinemoatū / Howard River is regarded as the primary topic of "Howard River". I don't have an opinion whether there is a primary topic but if not, the dab page should have been created at Howard River, not Howard River (disambiguation). (t · c) buidhe 19:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. That's what I created. Johnragla (talk) 19:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~You didn't, that's why we're here. Look at the page header.~~ (t · c) buidhe 19:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
BilledMammal why did you move the dab page to a policy-noncompliant title? Do you have information on which is the primary topic? If you thought the NZ river was the primary topic you should have reverted and added a hatnote, not moved the dab page. (t · c) buidhe 21:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The dab page, and Howard River, Northern Territory, were created in the middle of an RM where Howard River was proposed as a target, by an editor who opposed the move. Rather than allowing this to disrupt the RM that was already in progress, I felt it was better to maintain the status quo and allow the RM to proceed as proposed.

I did originally redirect, but there was some confusion around that with some reverts that felt like they were for unrelated reasons, so I ended up just moving it here. BilledMammal (talk) 22:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
BilledMammal If there is indeed no primary topic then it would be incorrect to complete the move because the proposed target is the unmarked "Howard River" title. That's not "disruption", it's improving the encyclopedia. I'd like to see some evidence as to what the primary topic is. (t · c) buidhe 22:50, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest that creating - not raising, creating - an additional issue to be considered half way through an RM is disruptive. Better to let the RM play out, and then consider this issue later.

Plus, once we have determined what the WP:COMMONNAME is WP:NZNC provides very clear instructions on how to disambiguate a title; given that, an informal discussion should be sufficient to determine if the topic we have considered primary for the past fifteen years is not, in fact, primary - although like you I would want to see evidence in that informal discussion. BilledMammal (talk) 23:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 21:20, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
●Wait Until RM is Completed-- per BilledMammal 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (talk) 15:15, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Do nothing until the RM concludes per BilledMammal. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 04:31, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: WP:TWODABS states, "if an ambiguous term has no primary topic, then that term needs to lead to a disambiguation page. In other words, where no topic is primary, the disambiguation page is placed at the base name." There is no primary topic, this should be a DAB. // Timothy :: talk 00:06, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In that case it should be moved to "Howard River". I'm fine with that but that's a move not a keep outcome. (t · c) buidhe 00:14, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: both targets seem to have equal notability, which means we need a DAB rather than a hatnote. The DAB should be fixed to place both on equal footing, rather than showing the NZ location as the primary and the Australian one as a "may also refer to". Owen× ☎ 14:06, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The related RM is still open, although there's enough opposition there that a successful move appears unlikely.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, _signed,Rosguill ^talk 15:32, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Howard River (disambiguation)

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